Comments on: This and That: “Shoots of Recovery” week edition http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/this-and-that-shoots-of-recovery-week-edition/ Helping you invest and prosper Thu, 18 Mar 2010 22:36:31 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Phil S http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/this-and-that-shoots-of-recovery-week-edition/#comment-189621 Phil S Mon, 20 Apr 2009 15:36:15 +0000 http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/?p=2102#comment-189621 Oops. I didn't mean to make it sound like I hate all rich people. Most of the self-made guys are pretty cool - I smile when I see Howard putzing around the neighbourhood in his Porsche. And some of the people who climbed their way up to the executive ranks seem pretty cool as well. It's mostly those who got to where they are because of who they know that are getting wealthy on the backs of shareholders and like to flaunt their wealth in the face of everybody else that just annoy the heck out of me. They just hold this attitude of entitlement. Anyways, changing laws will benefit everybody including these people that annoy the heck out of me. Enough ranting for now. :) Oops. I didn’t mean to make it sound like I hate all rich people. Most of the self-made guys are pretty cool – I smile when I see Howard putzing around the neighbourhood in his Porsche. And some of the people who climbed their way up to the executive ranks seem pretty cool as well.

It’s mostly those who got to where they are because of who they know that are getting wealthy on the backs of shareholders and like to flaunt their wealth in the face of everybody else that just annoy the heck out of me. They just hold this attitude of entitlement.

Anyways, changing laws will benefit everybody including these people that annoy the heck out of me. Enough ranting for now. :)

]]> By: Phil S http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/this-and-that-shoots-of-recovery-week-edition/#comment-189619 Phil S Mon, 20 Apr 2009 15:06:07 +0000 http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/?p=2102#comment-189619 My neighbourhood is completely chock full of people with stock options - but they're too busy trying to decide whether they want to use their stock option money to buy the Aston Martin Volante or the Maserati Quattroporte. The only thing keeping them from buying BOTH is that their garage only holds 6 cars and they might have to get rid of one their Benz's. Or perhaps this year they can use the money to upgrade from their 48' yacht to nicer 53' yacht, until next year when their Bimmer finally hits the ripe old age of 3. No, you're still not going to find me shedding a tear for any of my neighbours. CC. Well, then I guess you're definitely a much more fortunate peon to be in the high tech sector than a peon like me in engineering... ;) My neighbourhood is completely chock full of people with stock options – but they’re too busy trying to decide whether they want to use their stock option money to buy the Aston Martin Volante or the Maserati Quattroporte. The only thing keeping them from buying BOTH is that their garage only holds 6 cars and they might have to get rid of one their Benz’s. Or perhaps this year they can use the money to upgrade from their 48′ yacht to nicer 53′ yacht, until next year when their Bimmer finally hits the ripe old age of 3. No, you’re still not going to find me shedding a tear for any of my neighbours.

CC. Well, then I guess you’re definitely a much more fortunate peon to be in the high tech sector than a peon like me in engineering… ;)

]]> By: Canadian Capitalist http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/this-and-that-shoots-of-recovery-week-edition/#comment-189617 Canadian Capitalist Mon, 20 Apr 2009 14:11:03 +0000 http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/?p=2102#comment-189617 Phil: Stock options are very common in the high-tech sector... even peons like us get them :) In fact, the most valuable options I ever held were those awarded when I was fresh out of University and was on the bottom rung of the ladder. Phil: Stock options are very common in the high-tech sector… even peons like us get them :) In fact, the most valuable options I ever held were those awarded when I was fresh out of University and was on the bottom rung of the ladder.

]]> By: Michael James http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/this-and-that-shoots-of-recovery-week-edition/#comment-189612 Michael James Mon, 20 Apr 2009 13:10:28 +0000 http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/?p=2102#comment-189612 Phil S: You're 3 for 3 on missing the point in this thread. Congratulations. Employee share purchase plans are usually structured using stock options, and so many people have run into the same problem with both share purchase plans and stock option plans. I guess since you've never heard of people of modest means having stock options, they must not exist. Ever heard of Nortel? Phil S: You’re 3 for 3 on missing the point in this thread. Congratulations. Employee share purchase plans are usually structured using stock options, and so many people have run into the same problem with both share purchase plans and stock option plans. I guess since you’ve never heard of people of modest means having stock options, they must not exist. Ever heard of Nortel?

]]> By: Phil S http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/this-and-that-shoots-of-recovery-week-edition/#comment-189608 Phil S Mon, 20 Apr 2009 11:57:52 +0000 http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/?p=2102#comment-189608 I've never worked anywhere that I can make the assumption that my job is always secure. In fact, I'm off work now which is why I have time to surf the web. I know plenty of people who have employee share purchase plans - is that what you're confusing with stock option plans? Because I don't know any of these thousands of modest means Canadians who have stock options. Everybody I know who have stock options are so filthy rich that they like to flaunt it in everybody's face. I’ve never worked anywhere that I can make the assumption that my job is always secure. In fact, I’m off work now which is why I have time to surf the web.

I know plenty of people who have employee share purchase plans – is that what you’re confusing with stock option plans? Because I don’t know any of these thousands of modest means Canadians who have stock options. Everybody I know who have stock options are so filthy rich that they like to flaunt it in everybody’s face.

]]> By: Michael James http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/this-and-that-shoots-of-recovery-week-edition/#comment-189581 Michael James Sun, 19 Apr 2009 22:21:22 +0000 http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/?p=2102#comment-189581 Phil S: OK, let's replace "stock options" with "job security" and try an analogy. I've never worked anywhere where anyone other than the CEO and maybe a few top executives had the kind of job security that government workers have. So, if a guy who empties garbage cans in a government office is fired unfairly and denied any severance, I shouldn't feel sorry for him because the job security he thought he had is something I've only seen the big wigs have. Top executives making millions aren't the ones who have been hurt by the stock options taxation nonsense. It is working level people who were surprised to receive stock options and who have been screwed out of their homes by unfair tax laws. To be taxed on money you never received is unfair. Thousands of Canadians of modest means are getting hit with huge tax bills on phantom income that never existed. I'm guessing that the reason for your crocodile tears is that you don't really understand what is going on. Phil S: OK, let’s replace “stock options” with “job security” and try an analogy. I’ve never worked anywhere where anyone other than the CEO and maybe a few top executives had the kind of job security that government workers have. So, if a guy who empties garbage cans in a government office is fired unfairly and denied any severance, I shouldn’t feel sorry for him because the job security he thought he had is something I’ve only seen the big wigs have.

Top executives making millions aren’t the ones who have been hurt by the stock options taxation nonsense. It is working level people who were surprised to receive stock options and who have been screwed out of their homes by unfair tax laws. To be taxed on money you never received is unfair. Thousands of Canadians of modest means are getting hit with huge tax bills on phantom income that never existed. I’m guessing that the reason for your crocodile tears is that you don’t really understand what is going on.

]]> By: Phil S http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/this-and-that-shoots-of-recovery-week-edition/#comment-189576 Phil S Sun, 19 Apr 2009 21:41:28 +0000 http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/?p=2102#comment-189576 I've personally never worked anywhere where people below the executive level making millions more than I am received stock options, so I'm still having a hard time feeling sorry for anybody with them... The most I'll shed is some crocodile tears. I'm more often on the detrimental side of stock options, meaning as a shareholder. The stock options back dating to squeeze a few hundred more million dollars out of the company for executives at the same time diluting the value of my shares... That's the only perspective I've ever had with stock options. It's next to impossible for a common shareholder to detect stock option back dating because there is so little disclosure in financial statements on how the board of directors arrived at these compensation packages. The board and the executives are always complicit in scheming ways of ripping off the shareholders. The only times that the stock option back dating issues came to light is from whistle-blowers inside the company because of the complete lack of transparency. OK CC, let's see what pet peeve of mine that you're going to touch upon next week! ;) I’ve personally never worked anywhere where people below the executive level making millions more than I am received stock options, so I’m still having a hard time feeling sorry for anybody with them… The most I’ll shed is some crocodile tears.

I’m more often on the detrimental side of stock options, meaning as a shareholder. The stock options back dating to squeeze a few hundred more million dollars out of the company for executives at the same time diluting the value of my shares… That’s the only perspective I’ve ever had with stock options.

It’s next to impossible for a common shareholder to detect stock option back dating because there is so little disclosure in financial statements on how the board of directors arrived at these compensation packages. The board and the executives are always complicit in scheming ways of ripping off the shareholders. The only times that the stock option back dating issues came to light is from whistle-blowers inside the company because of the complete lack of transparency.

OK CC, let’s see what pet peeve of mine that you’re going to touch upon next week! ;)

]]> By: Colourful Money http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/this-and-that-shoots-of-recovery-week-edition/#comment-189533 Colourful Money Sun, 19 Apr 2009 03:07:47 +0000 http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/?p=2102#comment-189533 Awesome, thanks CC! Awesome, thanks CC!

]]> By: Canadian Capitalist http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/this-and-that-shoots-of-recovery-week-edition/#comment-189435 Canadian Capitalist Fri, 17 Apr 2009 16:32:33 +0000 http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/?p=2102#comment-189435 The government does recognize the absurdity of the situation; that's why some of the affected ones (but not all) were provided relief. In fact, I'd say the Government contributed to this situation because if memory serves right, they allowed stock options to be exercised and held as stock and deferring the taxes due until the stock is sold. If they hadn't allowed deferral, I think almost everyone would have done a cash exercise. The government does recognize the absurdity of the situation; that’s why some of the affected ones (but not all) were provided relief. In fact, I’d say the Government contributed to this situation because if memory serves right, they allowed stock options to be exercised and held as stock and deferring the taxes due until the stock is sold. If they hadn’t allowed deferral, I think almost everyone would have done a cash exercise.

]]> By: Million Dollar Journey http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/this-and-that-shoots-of-recovery-week-edition/#comment-189418 Million Dollar Journey Fri, 17 Apr 2009 12:03:44 +0000 http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/?p=2102#comment-189418 Thanks for the link CC! Thanks for the link CC!

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