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	<title>Comments on: RRSP Tip # 1: Should you Contribute?</title>
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		<title>By: Coburn</title>
		<link>http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/rrsp-tip-1-should-you-contribute/#comment-1481448</link>
		<dc:creator>Coburn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 15:19:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/2007/02/07/rrsp-tip-1-should-you-contribute#comment-1481448</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a big fan of RRSPs. As another said you can use the money you get back at tax time. Mortage you pay down and that&#039;s it, you save interest, sure. RRSPs you put in x dollars get over a third back, which means I only have 2/3s to go for next year. I

 think one thing no one is mentioning is mindset and budgeting. So let&#039;s say you decide you&#039;re young and are just going to forget about RRSPs for now and just do mortgage. Chances are you will just look at a bigger down payment and decide you can spend that much more on a house. Now you&#039;re still paying the same amount of interest and as another said you have no fallback. I think it&#039;s much better to contribute to retirement as much as you can, and it is far, far better to underestimate how much debt you can handle than to overestimate. What&#039;s wrong with maxing out that RRSP and just starting with a condo for 250k instead of starting with a 400K+? After you nearly have it paid off you can upgrade and you have your interest savings instead of starting with that 400k and paying that throughout the life of the mortgage. Or if you are comfortable enough financially you can buy a 2nd home, use the condo as a rental and shift a much mortage to it as possible, thereby having a lot of mortage that is tax deductible as well as your tax returns on RRSPs. Best of both worlds. Of course I understand not everyone is in that position.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a big fan of RRSPs. As another said you can use the money you get back at tax time. Mortage you pay down and that&#8217;s it, you save interest, sure. RRSPs you put in x dollars get over a third back, which means I only have 2/3s to go for next year. I</p>
<p> think one thing no one is mentioning is mindset and budgeting. So let&#8217;s say you decide you&#8217;re young and are just going to forget about RRSPs for now and just do mortgage. Chances are you will just look at a bigger down payment and decide you can spend that much more on a house. Now you&#8217;re still paying the same amount of interest and as another said you have no fallback. I think it&#8217;s much better to contribute to retirement as much as you can, and it is far, far better to underestimate how much debt you can handle than to overestimate. What&#8217;s wrong with maxing out that RRSP and just starting with a condo for 250k instead of starting with a 400K+? After you nearly have it paid off you can upgrade and you have your interest savings instead of starting with that 400k and paying that throughout the life of the mortgage. Or if you are comfortable enough financially you can buy a 2nd home, use the condo as a rental and shift a much mortage to it as possible, thereby having a lot of mortage that is tax deductible as well as your tax returns on RRSPs. Best of both worlds. Of course I understand not everyone is in that position.</p>
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		<title>By: Penny Beer</title>
		<link>http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/rrsp-tip-1-should-you-contribute/#comment-378921</link>
		<dc:creator>Penny Beer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jan 2011 16:49:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/2007/02/07/rrsp-tip-1-should-you-contribute#comment-378921</guid>
		<description>Rob has a great point. Don&#039;t deduct them but contribute actively. It works out better for total taxable income at the end. You will have a smaller &lt;a href=&quot;http://andrewjohns.ca/tax_free_savings_account&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;RRSP limit&lt;/a&gt; to worry about (since you&#039;re taking 18% of a smaller number) but only 3% of people reach that limit anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rob has a great point. Don&#8217;t deduct them but contribute actively. It works out better for total taxable income at the end. You will have a smaller <a href="http://andrewjohns.ca/tax_free_savings_account" rel="nofollow">RRSP limit</a> to worry about (since you&#8217;re taking 18% of a smaller number) but only 3% of people reach that limit anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: Mo</title>
		<link>http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/rrsp-tip-1-should-you-contribute/#comment-117050</link>
		<dc:creator>Mo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 21:10:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/2007/02/07/rrsp-tip-1-should-you-contribute#comment-117050</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m confused about the whole RRSP and RSP thing. 
Could someone please explain to me what they are? 
What are the differences between them? 
Do different parties sell them? 
Does owning an RRSP instead of an RSP, or vice-versa, have more advantages?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m confused about the whole RRSP and RSP thing.<br />
Could someone please explain to me what they are?<br />
What are the differences between them?<br />
Do different parties sell them?<br />
Does owning an RRSP instead of an RSP, or vice-versa, have more advantages?</p>
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		<title>By: Canadian Capitalist &#187; RRSP Tip # 2: Park your Contribution</title>
		<link>http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/rrsp-tip-1-should-you-contribute/#comment-20367</link>
		<dc:creator>Canadian Capitalist &#187; RRSP Tip # 2: Park your Contribution</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Feb 2007 12:17:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/2007/02/07/rrsp-tip-1-should-you-contribute#comment-20367</guid>
		<description>[...] Let&#8217;s say that you have decided that making a RRSP contribution makes sense for you. You are ready to contribute but you are not sure how you should invest your money. What do you do? It is very important that you don&#8217;t buy some mutual fund just because you want to beat the deadline. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Let&#8217;s say that you have decided that making a RRSP contribution makes sense for you. You are ready to contribute but you are not sure how you should invest your money. What do you do? It is very important that you don&#8217;t buy some mutual fund just because you want to beat the deadline. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: notstupidanymore</title>
		<link>http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/rrsp-tip-1-should-you-contribute/#comment-20340</link>
		<dc:creator>notstupidanymore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Feb 2007 05:34:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/2007/02/07/rrsp-tip-1-should-you-contribute#comment-20340</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know why people try so very hard not to understand why the RRSP is a trap that mainly serves banks and others in the financial sector.

Most people have a mortgage they are carrying and in servicing that debt they will pay a small fortune before finally owning their home.

Meanwhile they are being encouraged to put money into an RRSP - and even to borrow to do so - where nobody but their financial institution will make use of it until they are forced to withdraw it at which time it will be 100% taxable.

Yes, they will likely be withdrawing it at a time when their income is lower than when they were making the contributions, but it is not &quot;free&quot; when it comes out because they will still be in a tax bracket and they will still pay tax.

Mortgage is a lousy form of debt because unlike in the US it doesn&#039;t provide for any tax advantages on a principal residence.

Contrast that with debt incurred in borrowing for investment purposes - fully tax deductible.

So it is really a no-brainer - you should be putting every dime you can find towards your mortgage and borrowing back the equity for investing outside of an RRSP where the interest will be tax deductible.

The mortgage will be paid off rapidly and you will have a huge investment portfolio and the interest on the borrowed money to acquire it is fully tax deductible. You keep that loan and continue deducting the interest even after you have paid off your mortgage.

Then you start taking that same amount of money you were putting towards your mortgage into your non-RRSP investment portfolio and focus on dividend and other tax-friendly income generation and the proceeds from that are yours - 100% to do as you wish.

So many people have spent so much time trying to sound like the wealthy barber that they haven&#039;t seen the forest for the trees. RRSPs are for suckers. The bank loves them. The bank loves mortgages even more.

What the bank loves is not what is good for you. Think about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know why people try so very hard not to understand why the RRSP is a trap that mainly serves banks and others in the financial sector.</p>
<p>Most people have a mortgage they are carrying and in servicing that debt they will pay a small fortune before finally owning their home.</p>
<p>Meanwhile they are being encouraged to put money into an RRSP &#8211; and even to borrow to do so &#8211; where nobody but their financial institution will make use of it until they are forced to withdraw it at which time it will be 100% taxable.</p>
<p>Yes, they will likely be withdrawing it at a time when their income is lower than when they were making the contributions, but it is not &#8220;free&#8221; when it comes out because they will still be in a tax bracket and they will still pay tax.</p>
<p>Mortgage is a lousy form of debt because unlike in the US it doesn&#8217;t provide for any tax advantages on a principal residence.</p>
<p>Contrast that with debt incurred in borrowing for investment purposes &#8211; fully tax deductible.</p>
<p>So it is really a no-brainer &#8211; you should be putting every dime you can find towards your mortgage and borrowing back the equity for investing outside of an RRSP where the interest will be tax deductible.</p>
<p>The mortgage will be paid off rapidly and you will have a huge investment portfolio and the interest on the borrowed money to acquire it is fully tax deductible. You keep that loan and continue deducting the interest even after you have paid off your mortgage.</p>
<p>Then you start taking that same amount of money you were putting towards your mortgage into your non-RRSP investment portfolio and focus on dividend and other tax-friendly income generation and the proceeds from that are yours &#8211; 100% to do as you wish.</p>
<p>So many people have spent so much time trying to sound like the wealthy barber that they haven&#8217;t seen the forest for the trees. RRSPs are for suckers. The bank loves them. The bank loves mortgages even more.</p>
<p>What the bank loves is not what is good for you. Think about it.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/rrsp-tip-1-should-you-contribute/#comment-19859</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Feb 2007 01:15:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/2007/02/07/rrsp-tip-1-should-you-contribute#comment-19859</guid>
		<description>Rob that&#039;s an excellent point about having the rrsp to fall back on which I hadn&#039;t really considered.  That actually make me feel better about my own situation!  (I have a half decent rsp and an uncomfortable mortgage)
I think my point about the young people is that they have lots of time to save for retirement so the lack of rsp is not really risky in terms of will they have enough when they retire.  But they could certainly use an rrsp as a backup income plan as well.

Loki: 2 things - 1 - I think Rob? might have pointed out that you can contribute now and then use the contribution for tax purposes later on when you feel it&#039;s more appropriate.  2 - if you contribute too much in one year then you can reduce your marginal tax rate and won&#039;t get as much benefit.  It&#039;s best to research the various tax brackets and make sure that you stay in a high one when you make contributions.  I think it&#039;s better to spread out the &#039;catch-up&#039; contributions rather than do it all in one year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rob that&#8217;s an excellent point about having the rrsp to fall back on which I hadn&#8217;t really considered.  That actually make me feel better about my own situation!  (I have a half decent rsp and an uncomfortable mortgage)<br />
I think my point about the young people is that they have lots of time to save for retirement so the lack of rsp is not really risky in terms of will they have enough when they retire.  But they could certainly use an rrsp as a backup income plan as well.</p>
<p>Loki: 2 things &#8211; 1 &#8211; I think Rob? might have pointed out that you can contribute now and then use the contribution for tax purposes later on when you feel it&#8217;s more appropriate.  2 &#8211; if you contribute too much in one year then you can reduce your marginal tax rate and won&#8217;t get as much benefit.  It&#8217;s best to research the various tax brackets and make sure that you stay in a high one when you make contributions.  I think it&#8217;s better to spread out the &#8216;catch-up&#8217; contributions rather than do it all in one year.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/rrsp-tip-1-should-you-contribute/#comment-19848</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Feb 2007 23:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/2007/02/07/rrsp-tip-1-should-you-contribute#comment-19848</guid>
		<description>Relating to Mike&#039;s point #4 - Mike&#039;s points make sense, however I have a different take on risk to offer.

mike says - &quot;I’d like to add one thing to the debate: Another thing to consider about the rsp vs mortgage debate is risk. If a young couple for example has a large mortgage and a small rsp I would say they face a lot more risk from the mortgage than from the lack of an rsp. Interest rates could go up, one person could lose a job, babies start appearing etc. I would suggest they should concentrate more on the mortgage until it gets to a less risky level. At that point they can reasses and maybe start or increase their rsp contributions. &quot;

*****

I say... 
&#039;higher mortgage PLUS higher RSP&#039; = less risky 
&#039;lower mortgage PLUS lower RSP&#039; = more risky

To have a $200K mortgage and a $100K in RSPs (net worth = negative $100K) is far safer, than owing the bank $100K (same negative $100K net worth) and having little else to fall back on.  

I feel too many people underestimate the importance of having options and control when things go badly.  RSPs give you options and control in that should you get into financial trouble due to job loss, sickness, etc, you can always withdraw from RSPs to cover the mortgage payments until you get back on your feet.  If you don&#039;t have RSPs to fall back on, you may not be able to make your payments.  The bank can get cruel when they feel their money is at risk - that is not what you need when you&#039;re down.

Again, I feel Mike&#039;s points about risk are sound, however just wanted to add that perspective.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Relating to Mike&#8217;s point #4 &#8211; Mike&#8217;s points make sense, however I have a different take on risk to offer.</p>
<p>mike says &#8211; &#8220;I’d like to add one thing to the debate: Another thing to consider about the rsp vs mortgage debate is risk. If a young couple for example has a large mortgage and a small rsp I would say they face a lot more risk from the mortgage than from the lack of an rsp. Interest rates could go up, one person could lose a job, babies start appearing etc. I would suggest they should concentrate more on the mortgage until it gets to a less risky level. At that point they can reasses and maybe start or increase their rsp contributions. &#8221;</p>
<p>*****</p>
<p>I say&#8230;<br />
&#8216;higher mortgage PLUS higher RSP&#8217; = less risky<br />
&#8216;lower mortgage PLUS lower RSP&#8217; = more risky</p>
<p>To have a $200K mortgage and a $100K in RSPs (net worth = negative $100K) is far safer, than owing the bank $100K (same negative $100K net worth) and having little else to fall back on.  </p>
<p>I feel too many people underestimate the importance of having options and control when things go badly.  RSPs give you options and control in that should you get into financial trouble due to job loss, sickness, etc, you can always withdraw from RSPs to cover the mortgage payments until you get back on your feet.  If you don&#8217;t have RSPs to fall back on, you may not be able to make your payments.  The bank can get cruel when they feel their money is at risk &#8211; that is not what you need when you&#8217;re down.</p>
<p>Again, I feel Mike&#8217;s points about risk are sound, however just wanted to add that perspective.</p>
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		<title>By: Loki</title>
		<link>http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/rrsp-tip-1-should-you-contribute/#comment-19843</link>
		<dc:creator>Loki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Feb 2007 22:00:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/2007/02/07/rrsp-tip-1-should-you-contribute#comment-19843</guid>
		<description>CC,

On the topic of RRSP contribution room - I have a large amount of contribution room, wondering if it&#039;s best to let it build up to when I am making more money and then catch up with a $50,000k contribution or is it better to contribute little by little every year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CC,</p>
<p>On the topic of RRSP contribution room &#8211; I have a large amount of contribution room, wondering if it&#8217;s best to let it build up to when I am making more money and then catch up with a $50,000k contribution or is it better to contribute little by little every year.</p>
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		<title>By: Canadian Capitalist</title>
		<link>http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/rrsp-tip-1-should-you-contribute/#comment-19837</link>
		<dc:creator>Canadian Capitalist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Feb 2007 20:54:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/2007/02/07/rrsp-tip-1-should-you-contribute#comment-19837</guid>
		<description>Mike: I think you&#039;ll need to run a Monte Carlo simulation (does anyone know about a free one?) but I&#039;d venture a guess that a 6.5% average return is a reasonable assumption. You are going to be investing periodically, over the years in bull and bear markets. The long periods you are referring to is assuming you don&#039;t invest new money or reinvest dividends.

You can try this calculator from the Stingy Investor website, but it only goes back to 1970.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ndir.com/cgi-bin/downside.cgi&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Link&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike: I think you&#8217;ll need to run a Monte Carlo simulation (does anyone know about a free one?) but I&#8217;d venture a guess that a 6.5% average return is a reasonable assumption. You are going to be investing periodically, over the years in bull and bear markets. The long periods you are referring to is assuming you don&#8217;t invest new money or reinvest dividends.</p>
<p>You can try this calculator from the Stingy Investor website, but it only goes back to 1970.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.ndir.com/cgi-bin/downside.cgi" rel="nofollow">Link</a></p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/rrsp-tip-1-should-you-contribute/#comment-19833</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Feb 2007 20:19:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/2007/02/07/rrsp-tip-1-should-you-contribute#comment-19833</guid>
		<description>CC you got me thinking of certainties and probabilities.  In my case I&#039;m basing my retirement planning on retiring in 22 years.  In that 22 year time frame I&#039;m assuming that my portfolio (80/20 eq/bond) will get 7% for most of that time and then decrease down to 5.5% by the end of the 22 years.  Probably an average of 6.5%.  Realistically I&#039;m expecting an average return of at least 5% otherwise I&#039;ll have to either contribute more or work longer - but what is the probability that that will happen?  I know there are long periods in the last century where this portfolio wouldn&#039;t have gotten 5%.  It would be interesting to find some historical data and look at all the  20 year segments and figure out the compounded return for each of those segments - this might provide some clues as to the odds of my portfolio achieving over a certain rate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CC you got me thinking of certainties and probabilities.  In my case I&#8217;m basing my retirement planning on retiring in 22 years.  In that 22 year time frame I&#8217;m assuming that my portfolio (80/20 eq/bond) will get 7% for most of that time and then decrease down to 5.5% by the end of the 22 years.  Probably an average of 6.5%.  Realistically I&#8217;m expecting an average return of at least 5% otherwise I&#8217;ll have to either contribute more or work longer &#8211; but what is the probability that that will happen?  I know there are long periods in the last century where this portfolio wouldn&#8217;t have gotten 5%.  It would be interesting to find some historical data and look at all the  20 year segments and figure out the compounded return for each of those segments &#8211; this might provide some clues as to the odds of my portfolio achieving over a certain rate.</p>
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