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moneysense.ca, 1/02/10
Rich Dad, Poor Students
The recent Market Place episode on CBC, Road to Rich Dad, put a harsh spotlight on financial “guru” Robert Kiyosaki’s financial education empire and the picture that emerged is, shall we say, less than flattering. Mr. Kiyosaki licenses his brand to a company called Tigrent Learning that heavily advertises free “Learn to be Rich” workshops in cities across Canada. These free workshops turn out be little more than a sales pitch for another real-estate investing workshop held over 3 days.
Market Place packed a hidden camera and attended one of these 3-day, $500 workshops. “There is no way guys that you’re going to learn everything that there is to know about real estate in three days”, the trainer helpfully says, followed by an up sell for “advanced training” that costs even more money — ranging from 12 to 45 thousand dollars.
Market Place found that some real estate investing techniques are discussed in these seminars, except that a Toronto real estate lawyer who has done thousands of transactions says these techniques simply don’t work. So, what does Mr. Kiyosaki have to say of these workshops? “I am so upset”, he says, and promises to look into it. It is disconcerting to think that many Canadians, usually those who can least afford it, will be falling prey to these snake oil salesmen peddling worthless “advice” and charging thousands for it.
moneysense.ca, 1/02/10
This is a stunning Market Place episode. When the Tigrent Learning “trainer” told everyone to raise their credit limit to $100,000 I was gob smacked.
I was just about to post about the Rich Dad Poor Dad education seminar scam as well =)
The way Robert Kiyosaki acted in the video was astonishing- he acted very surprised and very well knew that the camera was still rolling when he used his ex-partner as a scapegoat.
His books are very inspiring and he’s a good speaker and story teller, but I guess he’s mingling with the “wrong crowd” (that company that is scamming North America, one student at a time!)
The arrogance of the “trainer” who claimed to have made $32,000,000 on a fictitious subdivision in Saskatchewan floored me. I am surprised that he wasn’t challenged on the first day by some of the attendees. It’s a good thing for him that none of us were in the room!
A Liar
I’d like to think that the workshops aren’t being run in the way Kiyosaki really wants and that he really is being harmed by a former partner who got him tied to Tigrent Learning. However, anything short of breaking his relationship with Tigrent at the earliest opportunity and returning all his profits from this enterprise to the “students” would leave him a snake oil salesman in my eyes.
What I find fascinating is the relatively large number of somewhat positive “Rich Dad” seminar comments. Were there a lot of people that actually benefitted from this seminar, or was that a version of the seminar from before that is not as much a sales pitch as it is now?
Curious if any of your readers have benefitted from this program, either recently or in the distant past?
Quick followup, I meant comments on the CBC website, below the video…
> It’s a good thing for him that none of us were in the room!
It wouldn’t have mattered. I imagine that if you had raised an issue, as shown in the programme, they would have simply called security and had you escorted out.
Hopefully, viewers of this programme (and the seminar) walked away strengthened in their beliefs that there is no guaranteed path to quick financial success. The key for most people is to get rich “slowly”, by living within one’s means, working hard, and investing intelligently.
>What I find fascinating is the relatively large number of somewhat positive “Rich Dad” seminar comments I am surprised that he wasn’t challenged on the first day by some of the attendees<
I expect they would have been ruthlessly mocked or asked to leave, judging by the rest of the action.
Years ago when I still lived in NY I was dragged to a seminar by a friend that involved (roughly, I'm exaggerating a bit) understanding what dead relatives want you to know. It was godawful of course, but my friend had just lost her mum and many of the audience members were recently bereaved too. The presenters were like vultures. These Rich Dad things make me feel just as sad/angry.
Also, I never knew he was charging so much for those damn board games!
Gaby A.: The people posting positive comments on the CBC website are almost definitely being paid by Tigrent to do it. It all reads like astroturf to me.
The hilarious thing is that it exposes how threatened the company feels by the Marketplace report. If the report was simply wrong, Tigrent wouldn’t need to do this sort of damage-control.
If someone knows how to get rich, and then offers to sell me this, always makes me wonder, why?
Free advice is also not worth much, but at least it’s cost is not what you should be skeptical about.
I wonder if these get rich type events spike in the current economic climate. Are more people trying to get rich quick now that interest rates are so low, unemployment is still relatively high, and people have experienced huge losses in equity portfolios.
I feel bad/sad if people move towards these schemes if they have already lost a lot in their lives. Pure exploitation.
Yes, pure exploitation. But that the way it is. Those offering rock-solid, useful advice must struggle to gain one student at a time.
Robert K has been nothing but a hype artist since day 1. His books are inspirational. He leaves readers believing. But believing what? He offers no instructions. He offers no ‘how to’ Yet people throw their money at him.
Perhaps the current situation will throw him in the garbage heap – where he belongs.
@youngandthrifty: I don’t think much of Kiyosaki as a personal finance “guru”. The stuff he writes for Yahoo Finance are mostly drivel and I don’t think he is entirely blameless here as he seems to want us to believe.
@Fred: I agree with a later comment that we’d have been thrown out the moment it became clear that we are disrupting the proceedings.
@Michael: I find Kiyosaki’s claims that he is unaware of what’s going on hard to believe. I’m hardly an expert in this area but anyone licensing out their brand to a third-party puts in clauses in the contract that clearly spell out that the license will be revoked before you can say “mobile home in Saskatchewan” if the brand is affected by negative publicity. Either Kiyosaki is unwilling to act or the contract was drawn up poorly. If it’s the first, Kiyosaki deserves a substantial share of the blame. If it’s the second, Kiyosaki isn’t the brilliant businessman he portrays himself as in his books.
@Gaby: As a latter commenter pointed out, it is probably Tigrent people stuffing the comments. I’ve noticed it myself over here when I write a critical post. The post will attract a flood of comments from supposedly different people often from the same IP address!
@guinness: “Vulture” is an apt moniker for these people. They also seem to follow what would be standard operating procedure for cults. Reinforce people’s inadequacies, pretend to know the solutions, isolate the potential victims and closely monitor for bad apples (no talking / socializing allowed, limited bathroom breaks, muscle to throw out the trouble makers etc.).
@Big Skeptical Man: Exactly! Sadly though, the easy money is in teaching, not investing.
CC: Sssshhhhhhh. I’m trying to shame Kiyosaki into giving people their money back in failed attempt to restore his name
Havn’t read any of his books but I’ve heard of him numerous times. People should be weary of any of these “I’ll show you how to make money” info sessions. They usually involve some sort of piramid scheme and/or some high-pressure sales tactics. GJ on getting the word out CC!
I can’t understand why people say his books are inspirational. I read one of his earlier books many years ago and I couldn’t help myself questioning the facts and all of the stories. Perhaps I’m too skeptical, but I didn’t gain anything from his book (or perhaps his writing and content has improved). Don’t get me completely wrong though, he’s obviously an excellent book seller. And if he’s truly ashamed about the recent allegations/connections on Marketplace, let’s hope he gets out of that specific connection.
I work for a commercial realtor, and consider myself to know a bit more about how the real estate market works compared to the average Joe. One day I saw an ad in the local newspaper for one of these get rich quick real estate seminars. Me and another guy from our office decided to go to see how the scam operated. It was that or keep working for the afternoon. It was an easy choice.
I have to say, I was pretty shocked at the information being given out. Basically, the strategy was to buy property at a 16% capitalization rate (whereas a typical rate in my market is about 6-7%). The plan from there was to leverage the hidden value in the property to buy more properties. It was just the worst advice I’ve ever heard.
Anyway, these things are such scams, I can’t imagine how people get roped into them.
“I am so upset”, he [Kiyosaki] says.
Yeah, right! He was upset because stories like this probably reduce his business. At least I hope they would.
Anyhow, I tried to read one of Kiyosaki’s books once, mostly out of morbid fascination. I had read some of his columns on Yahoo Finance and had been very impressed by the vitriolic response of most of the readers. So, off I went to the library, got myself a copy of “Rich Dad,” ate about 1000 prunes, and locked myself in the bathroom for a couple of days. I didn’t last long with “Rich Dad.” Reading my wife’s shampoo bottles proved a lot more interesting, and the advice was at least practical: you can rinse, AND repeat, if necessary.
TEMPLE
I found that segment of Market place to be shocking. I personally don’t believe that getting your credit limit jacked up to $100,000 is a road to riches. leveraging only creates more risk. I think the Snake oil salesmen are trying to get those limits raised to help pay for the more expensive courses…
I’d love to see Marketplace hidden camera one of the more expensive courses just to see how far it goes before the students walk into a room with a huge Gotcha sign.
regards,
Jason
I’m not surprised that there are positive comments on the CBC website about the paid seminar given that many attendees actually applauded the lecturer at the end of the course, which ended early and abruptly. It’s just sad that those people couldn’t see through BS.
I was very surprised that people at the seminar actually applauded as well!!
As these people being brainwashed?!
It’s like a cult!
How popular are these seminars?
I always seem to get invited to these by mail.
My wife and I went to one touting rent-to-own properties and it was shocking the numbers of people there (Victoria).
Everyone is always tempted by get-rich-quick schemes without working hard.
Face of life.
Can’t they sue in small claims and get their $500 back based on misrepresentation?
Good on CBC Market Place to air the show and expose this. I do feel for those who invested with Rich Dad, but at the same time, you could see that coming.
I mean really, the “trainer” (Mark M.) who claimed to have made $32,000,000 simply flat out lied. No mobile homes just an empty field. I mean really, who makes $32 M and has to be a trainer for Rich Dad anyway?? Good on some of those attendees to finally see the light after 3 days with that guy. Just a sad story all around.
Kiyosaki also managed to drag down my opionion of Donald Trump. Well……that and Celebrity Apprentice. Are there no filthy rich people we can look up to and admire? Warren Buffett I suppose.
Thanks for the information. I went to a FREE session on stock trading in Calgary and was pitched to attend the 3 day intensive workshop. I did not based on the need to go and do some homework/research. The bottom line is I was glad I did not register and also wrote a piece on the RICH DAD educational seminars. For more on what I think, you can read my article:
http://www.wealthwebgurus.com/article/888/free-rich-dad-education-seminar.aspx
Kiyosaki doesn’t deserve any benefit of the doubt. I read a debunking of his original Rich Dad Poor Dad book and when he does make any sort of concrete claims, it’s either exaggerated or outright fabricated. Not surprisingly, there never was a “rich dad”. He did not make his money using any of the methods he promotes, he made it with seminars and books.
And the claim that he’s “upset” by what goes on in his seminars is complete BS. He got his start doing exactly these kinds of seminars; he knows damn well how the scam works.
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At the end of the day it’s a sales pitch and the Kiyosaki guys aren’t the only ones doing it. Go through the leading newspapers and you’ll find similar seminars promoted by Donald Trump. Trump, of course, has nothing to do with any of the seminars and only licenses his name under the Trump Education trademark. Surely the mere mention of the name Trump would bring in more dodos hoping to turn themselves into millionaires overnight.
That’s why I tell people to stay away from these get-rich scams. Don’t buy their books, don’t go to their seminars even if it’s free. The only people who would come out rich are the ones writing and selling all that crap and they can be very persuasive. And the most infuriating part is how these marketers prey on the most vulnerable: naive, middle class individuals who know little about real estate and are willing to waste their hard earned money on a false prophecy.
I’ve never been to one of those seminars that license Kyosaki’s name but I’d like to comment on the issue, since I was enrolled in a Rich Dad Education program (“Rich Dad Coaching – Real Estate”) that lasted about 4 months.
Every one I’d have a 30min conversation with my coach, and based on goals and knowledge I’d be assigned various homework for the week which included reading this or that piece of the books that came with it, and usually completing worksheets that help you understand different aspects for RE investing (e.g. creative financing, etc).
All in all I can’t complain about the program as I learned quite a lot from it. Sure I could have learned all of it by different means, but having a coach you have to “answer” to every week is a big motivational factor to see your learning steps through. I’d probably rate the program 7-8/10 for people who are serious about learning the ropes. The “gateway” seminars operated by Tigrent on the other hand, are clearly a scam.
It would be interesting to see if Robert Kiyosaki is going to revoke his licence from Tigrent Learning!
I just finished his Unfair Advantage and found it quite accessible, intersting, and inspirational. But I’m a novice and I suppose if you already know a bit about investing, you would not appreciate it in the same way. He emphasizes getting educated–nothing wrong with that. Caveat emptor, as our Latin teacher once instructed us. And no, I am not associated with the Rich Dad brand!