You countered that with an example that shows higher premiums, using your database at winquote.net.

I don’t dispute that you can find higher prices than what I’ve quoted. Maybe you should try using a different database for your quotes.

It is also of merit to note that “Joint, first to die” configured life insurance policies may, and often do, differ substantially in various aspects. It is important to keep in mind that life insurance policies are legal contractual documents that include the rights and obligations of each of the parties (the insurance company and the “owner” of the policy). In Joint, first to die contracts, the wording of the policy contract also indicates such important matters as to whether the surviving person may continue coverage, and under what conditions. For example, whether the surviving person has to make a formal request for continuation of coverage, is there a time limitation (such as 45 days or 30 days from the date of death of the other person, etc.) for making such a request or whether coverage continues automatically (and without the need to make a formal request for continuation), what happens if both people are killed at the same time in an accident, etc.

While I am not a lawyer and none of this posting is intended to give advice in law, my view is that one should not enter into a legal contract without first having the opportunity to read and understand the agreement that is spelled out in that legal contract. Since life insurance IS a legal contract, my view is that is likewise applicable to buying life insurance. Even more so:

In addition to normal elements of contracts, life insurance contracts have additional requirements/elements. One of these is a requirement of utmost good faith, which in my view includes full disclosure by each of the parties (the insurance company and the policy buyer) to each other. Regardless of the type or configuration of the life insurance policy contract, failure to disclose could be a reason to render the contract “null and void”. The buyer of the insurance contract is obliged to accurately and fully disclose everything that is asked for in the insurance application form (which, by the way, also becomes part of the contract itself) and anything that is or could be related to application questions.

Likewise, the insurance seller (agent/broker) who is paid by the insurance company for selling the insurance should disclose in writing his or her reasons and basis for recommending the specific contract, along with the contract wording (not just a brochure but a specimen of the contract itself), initial and future premium costs, “residual values” (such as yearly guaranteed cash values), etc. As an insurance buyer, that is the minimum in WRITTEN disclosure that I would seek from an insurance agent or broker BEFORE agreeing to proceed with a written life insurance application. Again, readers should keep in mind that a life insurance policy is a legal CONTRACT and, in my view, consumers have a right to full disclosure of its terms, conditions, exclusions, limitations, costs and values, before making an application to enter into the contract.

Glenn Cooke asked for “hard numbers” as he apparently did not understand. For his benefit and for the benefit of readers, I cited the example as he requested. To make it easier for him to follow and understand, I used the same parameters noted in his pitch and also cited the source for reference. To make it even easier and clearer for Glenn Cooke, I also detailed the calculation (see my posting of March 6th).

I don’t sell insurance but do buy it as needed. As noted in an earlier posting, each person’s needs and circumstances are unique. In my view, it is the duty of insurance agents who sell insurance to the public to be knowledgeable, objective and unbiased, and to strive to provide the consumer with the most suitable alternatives.

The alternatives may include one or a combination of individual policies, Joint life policies, available offerings of combined billing discounted policies, or single policies where a second insured is added to the first in the form of a “rider”. The suitability and merit of any of the alternatives depends on the unique needs and circumstances of each case. Sweeping biased cookie-cutter generalizations and concocted allegations to distract readers are not helpful but are counter productive.

Readers may also notice the emphasis with which check4yourself seems to want to drop links in every one of their posts. Perhaps this anonymous poster has an agenda.

Let’s use the same parameters as that those in Glenn Cooke’s pitch: Male and Female, age 40 last and nearest 20-year term $500K:

As individual policies, per http://www.winquote.net competitive premium for the male as an individual is $43.20/Mo and for the female, $29.70/Mo. Total as individuals with independent policies $72.90. For the same two individuals with all else remaining the same but on a Joint, first-to-die basis: $65.70/Mo. So we have a difference of $8.20 per month. Please note that these figures are current as of this date.

To arrive at the percentage savings, the math is simple $8.20/$72.90*100=11.25%. Hard fact, but that is a substantial savings of more than twice the “less than 5%” that is pitched by Glenn Cooke. So, we arrive at the same conclusion: The statement “JFTD isn’t a very competitively priced product in the marketplace.” is nonsense!

A good life insurance advisor will strive to offer the solution that appears to be best suited for the need, your individual circumstances and the amount that you can comfortably afford to address the need. Conversely, a policy peddlar will pitch the easy sale “flavour of the day” policy from his/her selected insurance companies. A joint, first-to-die (JF) contract (note that there are differences among those as well), may be suitable for a joint single risk – for example to get rid of a mortgage or other large debt. A joint, last-to-die, contract (JL) may be suitable for a joint single risk such as taxes payable on capital gains or tax deferral instruments (eg RRSP or RRIF, etc.) at second death among husband and wife.

There are dozens of insurance companies and literally thousands of policy configurations available on the market. There is no single insurance company who is “best” for all needs and circumstances. What you need is a good advisor who:
a. Knows what (s)he is doing (ask for credentials and experience)
b. Will invest the time and effort to identify your needs and recommend the most suitable solution to YOUR needs
c. Places YOUR interests and financial needs ahead of his/hers.
d. Shops the market and has cares to invest in and use professional tools to do so (the market changes rapidly and tools such as LifeGuide are a must to properly and professionally shop the market)

The same policy will have the same costs, regardless of whether purchased from a professional full-service advisor or from a policy peddlar door to door, over the internet, or telemarketed over the phone. The professional service fees (aka “commissions”) are built into the premium that YOU pay, regardless of whether you get or not get the service. There are thousands of consumer interest oriented life insurance advisors who are equipped with the LifeGuide Professional software and service. A database of these professionals, searchable by postal code is available to everyone at http://www.winquote.net and the searches are free of charge.

“JFTD isn’t a very competitively priced product in the marketplace.” Nonsense!

Joint, First To Die (JFTD or J1) is not a “product” but is a product CONFIGURATION. In other words – and I’m surprised that an insurance salesman wouldn’t know this – 10 and 20 year term products are available in single life configurations as well as other configurations such as J1, CBD (Combined Billing Discount), etc.

Instead of falling for generalizations, check for yourself. The webite http://www.winquote.net is the most comprehensive and most objective for Canada. It’s a consumer resource that quotes the largest number of insurance companies, the largest number of products, the widest array of products, discloses the renewal costs, etc. – but doesn’t ask for your name or telephone number. In addition, and related to the discussion in this thread, it’s not limited to single life configurations only but also quotes the products – including the 10 and 20 year term, etc. – for Joint Life, including J1 (Joint First To Die), J2 (Joint Last To Die), as well as for Combined Billing Discount configurations, etc.

Moreover, if you are dealing with a broker rather than a single company captive agent, it may be to your advantage to check out the opportunities under “Multi-Life”. This is particularly so if the two individuals differ in gender, present or past tobacco use and (health and other) risk aspects, dates of birth, etc. In some cases, it may actually turn out to cost less in total to have one of the individuals insured with one company and the other with another.

Another matter to consider, a matter that hasn’t been raised yet in this thread, is that most term insurance policies base their pricing on “Age Nearest”. What this means is that if you are 39 years old and your 40th birthday comes up in just under 6 months, most insurance products will be quoted at you for age 40 rather than age 39.

The difference of one year in “Insurance Age” could mean thousands of dollars of difference in the premium costs of the policy over the years. There are two pieces of good news, however. The first is that if your upcoming birthday is less than 6 months away but more than 4 or 5 months months away – and WHEN REQUSTED – insurance companies may accept backdating of the contract date to “conserve age” (ie, to give you the same coverage at a lower premium). The second piece of good news is that there are thousands of consumer interest oriented brokers across the country who are equipped with the LifeGuide Professional Software with its built-in capabilities to automatically detect “age conservation” opportunities that may exist. In a nutshell, a LifeGuide equipped broker may successfully lower your premium costs beyond the prices quoted on-line.

Simply ask your broker to provide you with a LifeGuide survey before you commit to signing an application. You may save thousands by doing so.