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	<title>Comments on: Reader Query: Should I Choose Index Mutual Funds over ETFs?</title>
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		<title>By: Juan</title>
		<link>http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/reader-query-should-i-choose-index-mutual-funds-over-etfs/#comment-178662</link>
		<dc:creator>Juan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 14:19:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>If you are looking for the best &quot;really&quot; independent advisers please contact me for further information.  NO MINIMUM IS REQUIRED.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you are looking for the best &#8220;really&#8221; independent advisers please contact me for further information.  NO MINIMUM IS REQUIRED.</p>
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		<title>By: WhereDoesAllMyMoneyGo.com</title>
		<link>http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/reader-query-should-i-choose-index-mutual-funds-over-etfs/#comment-63987</link>
		<dc:creator>WhereDoesAllMyMoneyGo.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 01:49:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>willfly - another option is to sign up for a direct stock purchase plan through the company itself.  It basically adds you to the companies ESOP (without the E) :)  (or the matching :).

No frictional costs whatsoever - no brokerage costs, no commissions.  However, if you are contributing say $200/month to your savings then perhaps you can only enroll in 4 DSPPs - not an ideally diversified portfolio - but to each his own...

Usually these are only available through blue chip companies (which is a good thing!)  I remember seeing a list of all companies with DSPPs in North America somewhere - I&#039;m sure it&#039;s on the web too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>willfly &#8211; another option is to sign up for a direct stock purchase plan through the company itself.  It basically adds you to the companies ESOP (without the E) <img src='http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   (or the matching <img src='http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> .</p>
<p>No frictional costs whatsoever &#8211; no brokerage costs, no commissions.  However, if you are contributing say $200/month to your savings then perhaps you can only enroll in 4 DSPPs &#8211; not an ideally diversified portfolio &#8211; but to each his own&#8230;</p>
<p>Usually these are only available through blue chip companies (which is a good thing!)  I remember seeing a list of all companies with DSPPs in North America somewhere &#8211; I&#8217;m sure it&#8217;s on the web too.</p>
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		<title>By: willfly</title>
		<link>http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/reader-query-should-i-choose-index-mutual-funds-over-etfs/#comment-63792</link>
		<dc:creator>willfly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Aug 2007 16:07:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Biggest hurdle in implementing DCA for fund haters are the frictional costs. Someone recomended Interactive Brokers - charging 1cent per share; minimum 10$/mo - seems an excellent place to start dollar cost averaging. I have applied for an account and monthly contributions will be applied towards a basket of ETF&#039;s.

On the side note - IB allows FX trades as well, good for someone like me to convert foreign currency without paying high spreads to banks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Biggest hurdle in implementing DCA for fund haters are the frictional costs. Someone recomended Interactive Brokers &#8211; charging 1cent per share; minimum 10$/mo &#8211; seems an excellent place to start dollar cost averaging. I have applied for an account and monthly contributions will be applied towards a basket of ETF&#8217;s.</p>
<p>On the side note &#8211; IB allows FX trades as well, good for someone like me to convert foreign currency without paying high spreads to banks.</p>
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		<title>By: Canadian Capitalist</title>
		<link>http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/reader-query-should-i-choose-index-mutual-funds-over-etfs/#comment-63349</link>
		<dc:creator>Canadian Capitalist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 18:03:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>TG: Our boys RESP is entirely in TD e-Series funds. I didn&#039;t want to pay the annual fee, so I opened an account at my local branch. You can move an account from TD Bank to TD Waterhouse (for free, I think) in the future, when you have the minimum portfolio.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TG: Our boys RESP is entirely in TD e-Series funds. I didn&#8217;t want to pay the annual fee, so I opened an account at my local branch. You can move an account from TD Bank to TD Waterhouse (for free, I think) in the future, when you have the minimum portfolio.</p>
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		<title>By: Talkinggoat</title>
		<link>http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/reader-query-should-i-choose-index-mutual-funds-over-etfs/#comment-63345</link>
		<dc:creator>Talkinggoat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 17:18:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I am also planning on purchasing the efunds from TD but if I am not planning on purchasing any etfs in the near future am I better to just purchase them through my local branch or open a TD Waterhouse account.  I have currently have a little less than $20,000 to invest so if I open a Waterhouse account I would have to pay $125 yearly fee until I reach $25,000.  Any thoughts?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am also planning on purchasing the efunds from TD but if I am not planning on purchasing any etfs in the near future am I better to just purchase them through my local branch or open a TD Waterhouse account.  I have currently have a little less than $20,000 to invest so if I open a Waterhouse account I would have to pay $125 yearly fee until I reach $25,000.  Any thoughts?</p>
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		<title>By: WhereDoesAllMyMoneyGo.com</title>
		<link>http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/reader-query-should-i-choose-index-mutual-funds-over-etfs/#comment-63344</link>
		<dc:creator>WhereDoesAllMyMoneyGo.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 17:00:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I don&#039;t use mutual funds for my clients per se, but I do use investment pools on occasion which really are the same thing - when it comes to management one should look for a manager than can beat the index, but they also look for the &quot;upcapture/downcapture&quot; ratio.  i.e. if the long term rate of return is less by 1% for an actively managed fund you would think that this is bad.  And it is, unless the downside capture is less than the upside capture - then you don&#039;t have to worry as much about when you put in the funds.  Alot of performance reporting suffers from what is known as end date bias - you may find that alot of mangers beat the index depending on what type of market we&#039;ve just been through (bull vs bear).

End date bias can be extreme.  There is also something called universe inclusion bias - sometimes group averages are lower than normal because they included all the funds that became delisted.  On the other hand sometimes group averages only include the funds that currently exist and have dropped the performance data of the crappy funds.

So my point is that looking at performance numbers and comparing indices and benchmarks is not so cut and dry.  I&#039;m not trying to say everyone should be in managed product either, it&#039;s almost like your yard: you KNOW how to do it, but sometime you&#039;d rather someone else do it.  A simplistic analogy I realize, but nonetheless some people just do not want to be bothered with their investments or financial plans.  Others are much more empowered.

There IS a group of super smart dudes out there on Bay street that charge $800/month for their portfolio guidance and that&#039;s it.  They have averaged 20%/year for the last 25 years although with a higher beta than the TSX if I&#039;m not mistaken using an earnings momentum valuation model.

Warren Buffet is a prime example of an active manager - he&#039;s averaged 28%/year for 5 decades.  But these are extreme cases and these are people much smarter than myself - they do not follow modern portfolio theory, and are engaged in their investments to a larger degree than non-financial professionals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t use mutual funds for my clients per se, but I do use investment pools on occasion which really are the same thing &#8211; when it comes to management one should look for a manager than can beat the index, but they also look for the &#8220;upcapture/downcapture&#8221; ratio.  i.e. if the long term rate of return is less by 1% for an actively managed fund you would think that this is bad.  And it is, unless the downside capture is less than the upside capture &#8211; then you don&#8217;t have to worry as much about when you put in the funds.  Alot of performance reporting suffers from what is known as end date bias &#8211; you may find that alot of mangers beat the index depending on what type of market we&#8217;ve just been through (bull vs bear).</p>
<p>End date bias can be extreme.  There is also something called universe inclusion bias &#8211; sometimes group averages are lower than normal because they included all the funds that became delisted.  On the other hand sometimes group averages only include the funds that currently exist and have dropped the performance data of the crappy funds.</p>
<p>So my point is that looking at performance numbers and comparing indices and benchmarks is not so cut and dry.  I&#8217;m not trying to say everyone should be in managed product either, it&#8217;s almost like your yard: you KNOW how to do it, but sometime you&#8217;d rather someone else do it.  A simplistic analogy I realize, but nonetheless some people just do not want to be bothered with their investments or financial plans.  Others are much more empowered.</p>
<p>There IS a group of super smart dudes out there on Bay street that charge $800/month for their portfolio guidance and that&#8217;s it.  They have averaged 20%/year for the last 25 years although with a higher beta than the TSX if I&#8217;m not mistaken using an earnings momentum valuation model.</p>
<p>Warren Buffet is a prime example of an active manager &#8211; he&#8217;s averaged 28%/year for 5 decades.  But these are extreme cases and these are people much smarter than myself &#8211; they do not follow modern portfolio theory, and are engaged in their investments to a larger degree than non-financial professionals.</p>
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		<title>By: Canadian Capitalist</title>
		<link>http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/reader-query-should-i-choose-index-mutual-funds-over-etfs/#comment-63326</link>
		<dc:creator>Canadian Capitalist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 15:10:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/2007/08/21/reader-query-should-i-choose-index-mutual-funds-over-etfs#comment-63326</guid>
		<description>Jennie: One option is to invest regularly in TD e-Series funds and every year or so sell the mutual fund and buy the equivalent ETF. That way, you can get the benefit of regularly committing money and the lower costs of ETFs. This would work well in registered accounts but could take a small tax hit in taxable accounts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jennie: One option is to invest regularly in TD e-Series funds and every year or so sell the mutual fund and buy the equivalent ETF. That way, you can get the benefit of regularly committing money and the lower costs of ETFs. This would work well in registered accounts but could take a small tax hit in taxable accounts.</p>
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		<title>By: WhereDoesAllMyMoneyGo.com</title>
		<link>http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/reader-query-should-i-choose-index-mutual-funds-over-etfs/#comment-63317</link>
		<dc:creator>WhereDoesAllMyMoneyGo.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 13:50:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Peter Lynch commissioned Fidelity&#039;s research department to do a great study - I don&#039;t remember the exact dates and figure, but do remember the &quot;punchline&quot; as it were.

He asked them to compare the long term rate of return between someone who put their money in January 1st of every year VS someone who put their money in at the very peak of the market for the year VS someone who put their money in at the very bottom of the market every year.

After 30(?) years there was only 1(?)% difference between &quot;the best timer&quot; and &quot;the worst timer&quot;.  Moral of the story is that you can pull your hair out trying to get the timing right, but really it is all about time and getting the money in.

But theory and practice are two different things.  In practice it is easy to deal with seeing the contributions &quot;mask&quot; the volatility.

In theory you should figure out how long you will save and how much, and get a loan and put it all now.  Ultimate volatility, but if the markets do what they have done for the last 200 years you have the best outcome.

Jeremy Siegel&#039;s book &quot;stocks for the long run&quot; have a chart that shows stock, bond, and commodity performance over 200 years - very cool.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter Lynch commissioned Fidelity&#8217;s research department to do a great study &#8211; I don&#8217;t remember the exact dates and figure, but do remember the &#8220;punchline&#8221; as it were.</p>
<p>He asked them to compare the long term rate of return between someone who put their money in January 1st of every year VS someone who put their money in at the very peak of the market for the year VS someone who put their money in at the very bottom of the market every year.</p>
<p>After 30(?) years there was only 1(?)% difference between &#8220;the best timer&#8221; and &#8220;the worst timer&#8221;.  Moral of the story is that you can pull your hair out trying to get the timing right, but really it is all about time and getting the money in.</p>
<p>But theory and practice are two different things.  In practice it is easy to deal with seeing the contributions &#8220;mask&#8221; the volatility.</p>
<p>In theory you should figure out how long you will save and how much, and get a loan and put it all now.  Ultimate volatility, but if the markets do what they have done for the last 200 years you have the best outcome.</p>
<p>Jeremy Siegel&#8217;s book &#8220;stocks for the long run&#8221; have a chart that shows stock, bond, and commodity performance over 200 years &#8211; very cool.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennie</title>
		<link>http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/reader-query-should-i-choose-index-mutual-funds-over-etfs/#comment-63234</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 04:18:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/2007/08/21/reader-query-should-i-choose-index-mutual-funds-over-etfs#comment-63234</guid>
		<description>Agree with C.C on saving cost. 

But, one feature I like about Td e-fund is you can contribute small $$ each time and do Dollar-Cost Averaging investing. Given current volatile equity market, it&#039;s hard not to time the market if you trade ETFs in trading accounts. Who knows if you will get the timing right or not?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agree with C.C on saving cost. </p>
<p>But, one feature I like about Td e-fund is you can contribute small $$ each time and do Dollar-Cost Averaging investing. Given current volatile equity market, it&#8217;s hard not to time the market if you trade ETFs in trading accounts. Who knows if you will get the timing right or not?</p>
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		<title>By: Canadian Capitalist</title>
		<link>http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/reader-query-should-i-choose-index-mutual-funds-over-etfs/#comment-63215</link>
		<dc:creator>Canadian Capitalist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 02:03:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>WDAMG: Good point about considering aspects of financial planning other than investing. Investing is the easiest to get right but unfortunately, most people do poorly in their investments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WDAMG: Good point about considering aspects of financial planning other than investing. Investing is the easiest to get right but unfortunately, most people do poorly in their investments.</p>
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