Comments on: Dion’s Green Shift Plan

By: Young Capitalist

Young Capitalist — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 03:26:09 +0000

The baby boomers are the generation that got us into this mess and now we create new taxes for ourselves and send them 600 per month and lower their taxes. I do not think this is fair or wise.

By: The Green Shift | virtualgrant.com

The Green Shift | virtualgrant.com — Sat, 28 Jun 2008 05:39:22 +0000

[...] their Green Shift plan that would make big changes in our tax system. For a good summary, see this post by the Canadian Capitalist. Dion plans to shift some of the broad-based tax burden on all individuals and companies to just [...]

By: Leading Edge Boomer

Leading Edge Boomer — Sun, 22 Jun 2008 16:56:52 +0000

One of the details of the Green Shift, that seems to have been ignored, is that the government would send every senior citizen $600 a year to help offset increased costs due to the carbon tax. And of course seniors would have the decrease in the income tax as well.
Do you think this is fair or wise?

By: Gene

Gene — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 02:38:15 +0000

Open ethics question: Is it right to tax people who live near coal-fired plants more for electricity than those who consume hydro power? Honest question. I’m not entirely sure, myself. I suppose it is, if you want to prompt people to move to areas with more environmentally friendly energy sources, and encourage clean energy development.

Also, I think this new carbon tax would be a bureaucratic nightmare. Does everyone remember the billion+ dollar gun registry? Yuck.

By: Gus B

Gus B — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 23:14:49 +0000

Wiser Miser:

Climate Change is real. All peer-reviewed papers published in bonafide scientific journals agree on this. It’s time to start solving the problem.

If you don’t believe Al Gore, try this: http://www.un.org/dpi/ngosection/conference/pdfs/Final_Declaration.pdf

If you don’t believe the UN or scientists in general, try a well-respected economist’s point of view:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stern_Review

By: Wiser Miser

Wiser Miser — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 22:41:48 +0000

Here’s the link to the Liberals’ Green Shift Tax Benefit Calculator: http://thegreenshift.ca/default_e.aspx

and to counter the opinions of “The Inconvenient Truth”, here’s a link to the documentary “The Great Global Warming Swindle”:
http://www.channel4.com/science/microsites/G/great_global_warming_swindle/index.html

By: brad

brad — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 22:28:51 +0000

So far the best simple calculator I’ve come across that works for Canadians is this one:

http://www.econeutral.com/carboncalculator.html

It’s going to give you a very rough estimate, but at least it takes differences across provinces into account. It doesn’t include waste emissions, however.

There are dozens of carbon calculators out there, and more springing up every day; it’s impossible to keep track of them all.

All of the calcuators have to walk a fine line between accuracy and ease of use. If you want a really accurate calculator it starts looking like a tax form, and we all know how much fun it is to fill out a tax form. So most organizations and agencies opt for the easy-to-use variety, which then requires broad assumptions. The results are probably broadly accurate but by no means precise and could be off by many tons.

By: brad

brad — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 22:07:06 +0000

Gus, I’ll see if I can find a good Canada-specific carbon calculator; if I do I’ll post a link here (or if someone else knows of one please post a link). The emission factors for electricity should be customized for each province; emission factors for other sources such as transportation and waste are not region-specific. In the US, you practically have to customize electricity emission factors by zip code (which some calculators do), because there are so many utilities and their service areas overlap.

One other thing about the Green Shift plan is that they say the 700 largest emitters (power plants and energy-intensive industries) will foot the majority of the bill. However, they don’t say what that will mean for those of us who purchase services and products from those emitters. Clearly they will pass the costs on to consumers, and this could create large disparities across provinces. I’m sure they’ve thought that through, but I didn’t see anything about it in the Green Shift document.

By: Canadian Capitalist

Canadian Capitalist — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 21:54:02 +0000

Mby45: What’s new? People will say anything until they have to back it up with money. Apparently, 60% of Canadians told pollsters they support a carbon tax. We’ll see whether they still support it after learning more about this plan.

Gus: Of course, people are not going to change until it hits them in the pocketbook. The question is — if they can’t figure out how much it will actually cost them, are they likely to vote for it?

I actually think savers will like the carbon tax. After all, the money you save isn’t producing GHG and if you household is an average emitter, you pay the same as other average emitters but you are getting back much more in tax cuts. But savers are in a minority and it is the spenders who will decide the fate of the plan.

By: Gus B

Gus B — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 21:50:30 +0000

Brad,

Can you recommend a carbon calculator?

Given that no calculator will be entirely accurate, it’s not possible to determine exactly how better (or worse) off you will be with Dion’s tax shifting plan. However, the important thing is that it will nudge a significant number of Canadians into gradually changing their behaviour and therefore reducing GHG emissions.